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This was a right he, nor any man, truly had or has. I have my faith left, but so much that I thought was real about my faith has been shaken off. I bring up Eastern Orthodoxy because its dogma and practices are very old. And who appoints the elders (Disciples are no longer with us) if every church is autonomous? We were seated in the folding chairs with our children, had 6 at the time, the oldest 11, the youngest 2. As if someone who chooses to remain anonymous has no right to speak. seeing the beauty of the deposit of God in them. i take no more stock in what paul thinks than i do in what i think. 1/3 https://t.co/2PHkVGmEfJ, © 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - The Wartburg Watch. dont do anything just because you want to (that would be selfish) but wait until you hear from God. This statement just doesnt sound much like what Jesus talked to the twelve about. We have seen through the falsity of that which proclaims itself the infallible voice of God. He was also involved with setting up secret retirement accounts and encouraging outrageous T&E expenditures as a way of making himself invaluable to James. Whose job is the ministry? Thanks for the reply. He produced the independent feature "Hometown Legend" at the age of 25 and shepherded it to distribution by Warner Brothers. Also, your letter simply further bolsters credibility of the excellent work from the Elephants Debt and Julie Roys. I initially read that as bought him years of support. Do like King David did (by writing Psalm 51 and signing his name for eternity) sign your name to your failure then go find some hurting people from Harvest and minister to them. That was in response to PJ. mostly because God doesnt need professional christians and their institution in the first place.. Same thing I guess. One church on six campuses serving together in this purpose: to glorify God and fulfill the Great Commission! They all were making out pretty large with the tithes of people who thought they were giving to good causes. That is one video that I wold love to post. Max: I suspect that even MacDonald started out with good intentions (maybe). Behind him, an ancient city unfurled. Harvest Bible Chapel is one church meeting on six campuses. Our '3rd Service' is an online experience drawn from our live Weekend Gatherings. Narcissistic business CEOs mistreat their subordinates and the nastiness flows downhill within the enterprise. This was a guy who was lauded before thousands each week on the stage, promoted on a national radio program, spread his influence through 18 books. The evidence points to a scam designed to benefit one person only. And this is a relatively new development in protestantism, its just 45-50 years old. They are set in place as the shepherds of Gods people, and thus are the care takers of the spiritual needs of the church. Many do not seek truth, but whatever best tickles their ears. No more tithe. I agree with those who say that Dee is fair with her control of her blog. Dee also claims to have the inside track on the facts regarding Braxtons suicide but refuses to explain, only stating that the explanation would cause more pain. Dont ever feel like your input here is ever wasted. In April 2016, Harvest acquired a permanent church facility in Aurora to allow the Aurora Campus to continue to grow, both in number and effectiveness in reaching people for Christ. Law Prof: the posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments. And who on this blog doesnt love questions to be answered and truth to be revealed. Max: TS00: Or would they even care? Harvest Bible Chapel Jan 2010 - Dec 20178 years Greater Chicago Area Led media team, producing movies, short films, and large-scale videos. I know we have to hunt to keep down the population of wild creatures, especially in areas where they dont have any natural predators, so they dont destroy the environment and/or starve. Thats too deep to answer. What I see, I cant un-see; what I know I cant un-know its in my knower! Because MacDonald earned it. Vincent is a coward: came to an old thread less likely to be read and didnt stick around to answer for his comment. the powerbrokers have manipulated everyone to heavily invest their finances, their time, energy, their relationships, and their own life in the institution. Chicago is witnessing the implosions of two famous mega churches due to the allegations against their leadership pastors. RAWR!, I doubt that the facts will stop MacDonald from making an unrepentant comeback. It is likely that he deliberately sought the chips he could cash in on anyone who might be in a position to spill the beans. If people develop So theyll speak of doin church together, or kingdom life, or some such nonsense. Its a good letter Dallas but would have been so much more impactful 2 months ago or even 1 month ago. This man is a disgrace to humanity. Im holding out hope that my faith in God will survive, but truth be told, some days that seems uncertain as well (and save yourself the time writing me about how my faith must not have been that deep if indeed Im struggling with God and Jesus). In spite of repeated correction they did not let go of this hope while Jesus remained. There is little question in my mind that James MacDonald will flip the bird at Harvest Bible Chapel and start a new church enterprise quicker than you can say leather jacket. What MacDonald has done must be documented, not only for the education of his next set of *followers* but for posterity. PJ: Be wary of falling into the trappings you so boldly wish expose. Im not holding my breath. Size, style, structure, statements, staff..have not guaranteed us safe and healthy churches. You came to Chicago to work at Harvest Bible Chapel in Elgin with the hope of making movies through its Vertical . It obviously took courage for you to write it. If for no other reasons, the statements must be public so that the people of HBC see what their Elders saw. My cousin belongs to a house church in western Iowa. At this point however the narrative cannot be controlled by people because God Almighty is acting now. Jesus talked a LOT about living in the Kingdom we would do well to read His words living in the church doesnt always mean living in the Kingdom. It might be handy (for someone in high places with a gambling addiction) to have an insider to assist them in hiding their identity or amount of activity. You think youre justified at all in bristling in obvious irritation that your letter, which is apparently the rest of the story truth about this very public figure, got out of your control and hit the public sphere? You have lived in a place too long where you have not had to embrace it. im proud to be human. Harvest CEO J Scott Milholland, was one of the men who was responsible for the $10M year secret Black Fund which was used to grossly enrich the top 20 execs at Harvest (including Dallas Jenkins). In our services, our ministries, our music-in everything we do at Harvest, our passion and focus are to bring God glory through His Son Jesus Christ. In 2008, the church was listed by Outreach magazine as one of the 100 fastest-growing churches in America. Amy Moore: There are about 4 dozen Harvest execs & elders moving on to other ministries and the corruption runs so deep theres no chance they wont be infecting every ministry they touch going forward. Its sad to have lived to such a ripe old age to witness a generation that doesnt respect their elders as they ought. These qualifications must be met if one is to be a pastor for the flock of God. One can attempt to form a very egalitarian group where no one is in charge, but it only works until a dysfunctional person makes a power grab. Harvests former CFO, Fred Adams, now runs a sketchy consulting group that helps wealthy elite church insiders set up secret LLCs to buy church buildings so that the churches can then transfer wealth to them in the form of both monthly rentals instead of building equity for the members, while also authorizing the campuses to make major improvements and expansions that cost millions, which will then belong to the LLC owners, not the flock. Vertical Church Band released four albums through Essential Records: Live Worship from Vertical Church in 2012, The Rock Wont Move in 2013, Church Songs in 2015, and Frontiers in 2016with the last two albums peaking at #1 on the Christian Billboard chart. others have encountered the bright, blinding light (minus the horse, not on the road to Damascus) and heard a voice self-identified as Jesus (including a few people i know). It's literally in his DNA, as his father Jerry is the co-author of the popular LeftBehind series of religious novels. If Dees afraid of Hall, she sure hasnt done a very good job of living it out. To the American church which is playing games with the gospel in both pulpit and pew the Apostle John still shouts Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues (Revelation 18:4). When will the madness end?! Hosting Harvest America in your church is a unique and powerful way for the gospel to reach people in your community too." James MacDonald , Senior Pastor, Harvest Bible Chapel "There is no questions that Greg Laurie is making a huge impact for Christ and that lives are being changed by the thousands through Harvest America. He promised never to leave me, wolves among the sheep, earning their money, Only a public attack and a loss of financial success would drive change at Harvest., Thank you, Fisher, for the encouragement. , Amy Moore: new incognito Floridian Santa Claus look, No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. (2 Cor 11:14). I read your posts as a searing, agonized, utterly sincere *cri de ceour. I am willing to bet that MacDonald has been on the horn with Driscoll to see how he transitioned to Scottsdale after Mars Hill imploded. A: To learn how to do church in order to manipulate, intimidate and dominate trusting souls. My comment as Amy kept not going through so I asked a family member whos previously posted successfully here to try using their account and they posted only half the comment because they thought maybe it was too long. Truth (the Word) + The Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) = Revealed Truth. Jesus said that you cannot serve both Him and Mammon. WHERE TO . ++++++++++++++++++. He is faithful, gracious, merciful, kind and always desires and seeks out your best. Sadly, I was guilty of the same in my day, taking the word of the pastor that those who left us were never one of us. Lured by the hope of sitting someday at the right hand of The Man JMac, not Jesus. Too many are like big box stores that shutter all of (the little churches on) Main Street, and then close their own doors forever. Let him call for the elders [PRESBUTEROS] of the church, and let them pray over him (James 5:14). Its obvious that theres not enough scintilla of evidence to convict most of them of being Christian. I certainly have my doubts that Paul would be rejoicing over the likes of MacDonald, Hybels, Driscoll, and countless others who have taken advantage of the Body of Christ over the last 2,000 years. Posted in Theology | Tagged Alpha and Omega, Comparing Myself to Others, Dallas Jenkins, Gavin Stone, God's Sovereignty, God's Will Plan and Priorities, Harvest Bible Chapel, Vertical Church Films | 7 Comments. I second that. Dallas, you have a lot to learn about life, and perhaps a lot to learn about the One Who spoke of whispers in the inner rooms being shouted from rooftops. In a godly biblical hierarchy, what would flow downhill would be love and care. and a Pastor. Good Lord, how does that happen?! And thats before one adds in the problem of self-deception. But this just doesnt seem to fit. They all seem to be on display at HBC. I hope somebody has kept good documentation somewhere of all such dealings that could be produced as evidence. Dallas, his dad Jerry Jenkins, and James MacDonald also played poker together. Consider the following Scriptures: And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors [POIMEN] and teachers (Ephesians 4:11). I dont know, Ken. There are other places for the truly repentant to serve in the church. Max: Thats why the early church had congregational governance, rather than elder rule polity the Body of Christ had a say in who the church leaders were. Harvest Bible Chapel looks forward to the future as we continue training up ministry leaders, pastors and church plants that seek to fulfill the Great Commission in Matthew 8:28. john, i truly suspect that the only difference between my friends & family i described above and the grace-filled believer you describe is window dressing: vocabulary used when speaking, a smiley face, a tone of voice, body language. The way back: 2 Chronicles 7:14 but I dont see much movement in that direction. Law Prof: I think Sinclair Lewis was an emotional infant and had a lot more in common with Elmer Gantry than he had the introspection to see. Notice that Fred brags about Negotiating more than $100 million in church mortgage financing. I, personally, do find truth to be something to rejoice in. Probably took over where my favorite Vietnamese restaurant used to be. . And perhaps we should remember that Jesus did not come to set up authoritative institutions, but to gather his individual lost sheep. He is my Fortress (part 2) Posted on July 11, 2009 by Jeff Block. Thank you John for your honesty and insight into elder selection at HBC. After two years of searching without success, a generous supporter offered Harvest her property650 beautiful, wooded acres on a lake in Newaygo, Michiganand Camp Harvest was launched on July 28, 2002. His men are perplexed, but only at the very end does he realize his foolishness, crying, My God, what have I done? before aiming his dying body at the detonator to blow up his glorious creation. i agree, Paul has worthy things to say that are beneficial. Now lets see him use his powerful personality and influence to secure real transparency, healing and change for the thousands of people he claims to care about. In destructive cults that pose as Christian megas, there is evidently an attitude of privilege and authority among those who call themselves elders that is simply nonexistent in the Bibleit seems anti-Christ, actually. Its actually pretty simple to pick out the false ones. And I doubt it was simply losing their job, as many of them voluntarily left. Lol. Its a lonely place, especially when my life was steeped in church community, teaching, and deep, deep, love for Christ and His people. This campus is a close-knit family of Christ-followers who are deeply committed to living out the gospel and seeing God use their church to impact their community. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Im holding out hope that my faith in God will survive, but truth be told, some days that seems uncertain as well (and save yourself the time writing me about how my faith must not have been that deep if indeed Im struggling with God and Jesus). In an interview with the Chicago Sun Times, Jenkins said, "We feel like if people can binge watch . Precept Inductive Bible Study for Women. Harvest Kids meet at 9:00a (Nursery-5th) + 11.00a (Nursery-3yrs). Your desire for those far flung hundreds of thousands or millions whod been influenced by his ministry to know the cold, hard truth shouldve trumped any desire to keep things in house. So yeah, theres really NOBODY looking over Driscolls shoulder, Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely (Lord Acton). His arrogance and rage unbalances him. im so glad i resisted & refused all the pressure the christian community put on everyone concerning that film. We know the examples of Timothy, Titus etc. Association of Related Churches Its also possible it wasnt a continuous period of teaching, that there were times when they all had to go to work because they had families to support. Whats chilling is you can still see the cult hold harvest has on him and others as he desribes his felling in the beginning of the letter. Max, I love you. at one time run an online poker site? Take away the money and you will find far fewer wolves circling the pot. Just as I have loved you, so you must love one another. Hard to imagine that they would ever voluntarily fission into smaller groups. Driscoll was stopped Hybels was stopped MacDonald was stopped. Thrilled for both of them as they start their life together. Church, this is good advice for all of us! . David, this is something that I think needs much closer examination. Which almost conquered my soul. it is wrong. Is anonymous code for little people or pew peons? TS00: I dont know, if one follows Twitter, there are several who have commented that attended church with JMac in his youth, and they have nothing positive to say about him or his character from way back. Or get your own blog and allow comments to your hearts content. Very useful and informative. Sadly, it is not uncommon to find that in time of great loss, the church is not really there for them after all, that in case of health problems that make one unable to serve, they are quickly forgotten, that the great majority of those friendships have a tendency to evaporate or even turn to shunning if put to the test; that it was all a grand illusion, after all the time, effort and loyalty invested. Unfortunately, the American church is such a mess that it provides sufficient wiggle room for charlatans to launch another ministry and drag the precious name of Christ through the streets again. Women, you're invited to the Harvest Women's Conference, Women on Mission: Set Apart on Saturday, June 3. It is long past time Jenkins spoke up. Its your choice. And probably just as Drama-Rama and Fundy about it, Magick Crystals and all. This will always happen, there is no way to avoid it. Once credibility is lost, it is hard to regain. hard for me to imagine a job description for this that commands a big salary, let alone a modest salary. Many needy men get their egos stroked, while the women see through the charade. Trust me, youre not. Your comments about pastor so and so were so, er, clever! What are sheep to do? Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. I wish it wasnt so. I dont blame the Thompsons. , Info on the photo is apparently wrong. Not one. Agreed. A narcissist is very good at manipulating people, and very patient. Whew! Gods blessings to you. He sat there for years and participated when people were being bullied and abused, being screamed at by their pastor and boss to the point of tears, watching hundreds of thousands of dollars being spent profligately. To do that you must have first hand knowledge and part of that fellowship in some fashion in order to be qualified to hold people accountable before God. Note, I am using my name.. Amen. (As well as send a message to any possible Dissidents.) He lied. Im working with a couple of other groups and IMO progress is being made. there was no way i could see that movie, even as a full-fledged crusty, jaded adult. Hey, if you look at JMACs Instagram he has a pic from fall of 2018 praising Mark Driscolls new book? Dallas Jenkins (born July 25, 1975) is an American film and television director, writer and film producer. Vague and almost never supported accusations, e.g., the posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the commentshere is always, in my experience, just a smear from someone whos actually rather cowardly and just looking to defame. God is omnipresent and always acting, everywhere, as you find out once youre on the outside. And today we have 50 year old churches that went afowl 45 years agothey may have all of the teminology down and believe they are the magisterium protecting the truth, but they are dead and Gods Spirit has left. My current frustration, as someone who wants to get it right, is not knowing how to get it right in light of all the historical evidence. Id say largely because the leaders themselves have been told to believe this. Still plenty of room on the downside, I reckon. Was it released or leaked? Bible Follower | The Bible contains a wealth of knowledge and wisdom that's waiting for us to unearth it. I adhere to the never-say-never adage but cant even remotely imagine EVER being involved with a church again. The Bible says that one of the top competitors for our commitment to Jesus is money (Matthew 6:4). All kidding aside, may you, Jessica, Ryan Mahoney, Dee Parsons, any many others who are continuing to fight the good fight be richly blessed. I dont think one can derive that theory from that word showing up once in the entire NT in Peg 4, 4th in a list. Bidding me still to fight on. God doesnt need Harvest and in fact Id be willing to say the spirit of Jezebel has been leading that place since the early 2000s. Churches that are run like cults do not encourage true friendships. What church does Dallas Jenkins attend? You couldnt care if the pastor lives in a 4 million dollar mansion. I tend to trust her judgment here. Then I read actual instructions on the veneration of Elders as of Christ himself. Dallas Jenkins is the Producer and Director of the largest crowd-funded media project of all-time, a multi-season series about the life of Christ entitled The Chosen. The wheels of justice turn slowly. But first you must go before your brother in Jesus was dismayed by self-seeking among His disciples; he who would be great among you must become the servant of all.. Each church is completely autonomous, and thus, as it was written, appoint elders in every church, Truly, we need to follow the design God laid out for the church, for in so doing, we will benefit. Muff Potter: Youre not alone elastigirl, theres no way I could watch it either. They all were making out pretty large with the tithes of people who thought they were giving to good causes. Or rather, a simulacrum of an ancient city. If Paul was a rogue usurper, Luke was the co-conspirator who legitimized the takeover. I was just telling my wife this morning, that all the corruption that gets exposed on TWW is actually quite consistent with the NT warning of beware of wolves in sheeps clothing. I guess thats why I share my story, in hopes that others can be forewarned. The posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments both here and on Twitter from anonymous people. Thems shootin words in these parts (Christianville), maam. As Jenkins mentions in the above Instagram post, the cast and crew are on their second day of filming the Bible's 'Feeding of the Five Thousand' story (F5K). Pastor James MacDonald, the founder Harvest Bible Chapel, a megachurch located in the surrounding Chicago area, has been fired as a leader of the church. Because he met the qualifications for eldership? TS00: I find it very comforting to know that Jesus entered into a world that was very similar to what we now face: Religion had become a caricature of what God desired, and Jesus gently called people to follow him, rather than fear men. MacDonalds lavish lifestyle drove Thompson to leave the church. The present situation has for me the feel of exile and diaspora in the intertestamental period. Rather, it appears that the early church looked much more Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Anglican than low-church protestant. SiteSeer: I see nothing denoting an office. It seems like to me that in a group of people, these things sort themselves out without anyone declaring it to be a position and appointing people to it. This is why he has amassed good wealth. After six months exclusively online, we returned to in person services in September 2020. And all of the gold and silver in those Spanish cathedrals was stolen from colonies in Central and South America, where it was mined by enslaved natives, mostly. Many needy men get their egos stroked, while the women see through the charade. a Christian/inspirational filmmaker, and former Director of Visual Media and member of the Executive Leadership Team at Harvest Bible Chapel . God has shown great favor and grace to Harvest Bible Chapel, allowing us to plant churches, host in thriving mens, womens events, and student gatherings, and creating ministries centering around outreach in our communities. Why would a person, individually, or a community put up with this behavior? But as long as theres sin, there will be plenty of work to do to shine a light in the dark places of Christendom. While I might be willing to grant that many elders/leaders probably start out with relatively good intentions, I suspect that the genuinely evil wolves (yes, I count MacDonald and Hybels as wolves, not fallen shepherds) are pretty good at picking out those who are most vulnerable to deception and temptation. You have my phone number,. A lot to think about these days! Dallas Jenkins produced the independent feature Hometown Legend at the age of 25 and shepherded it to distribution by Warner Brothers. elastigirl: why does it matter what Max thinks, I took your text out of context a bit, so forgive me. You should repent and make reparations where necessary. And all youre ever going to be is mean Same thing church leaders told Mars Hill members after Driscolls exit and Willow Creek after Hybels exit. Women's Bible Study. I think its one of the reasons that the mega movement has been so attractive to laity as well as leaders; they imagine that a bigger, more resource-rich group will be able to rescue more people from the terrible fate they would otherwise experience. Please forgive me. And thats the cold, hard truth. The laity has a huge role in keeping leaders in check, at least theoretically. Elsewhere on this thread I talked about a situation where itd be cruel imo to air public matters. They have acted like they dont believe that with no fear of God but payday is coming someday when they stand before their Creator. I think telling the truth is of much more value than creating or maintaining appearances. What is an egalitarian group to do I when bullies take over? That said, the bishops, priests, and deacons are supposed to be models of humility and servanthood. For you, maybe, but not for most here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwSTe9uit48. elastigirl, I was a strong donor who loved the church and served in multiple areasI was in a good place spirituallybut I didnt meet the qualifications. Jenkins: Yeah, I did the original Christmas short solely as something for my church's Christmas Eve service [said church being Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago]. Redemption is a gift, freely offered to one and all. If so, that would be a good thing if we could get back to letting the Main Thing be the main thing. Of course, he wasnt qualified for either so I guess that didnt matter. +++++++++++++++++++++. Dallas Jenkins stood with his arms crossed, facing the sunrise, a swath of orange clouds brushing the blue-gray mountains and yellow sky. Never, and I mean never, have I heard someone say, I would leave, but I just cant survive without the gifted teaching. 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